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I am the 3rd car in a queue of 3 cars totally stopped at a stop sign for 5 seconds at Monorgan Rd, Miramar, Wellington and planning to turn left into The Broadway. I am in a position to ascertain that the way is clear for me to proceed without stopping again - there were no cars from the right and none coming the opposite way. The second vehicle did exactly the same thing but was not pulled over by the police car that was watching. I was ticketed when I turned left into The Broadway for failing to stop at the stop sign. This is an issue that seems to come up constantly in reading various blogs and several people have been stung. Is the ticket valid? I know that the Road User Rule 4.1 does not stipulate that you must stop at the yellow line. I also have video evidence to prove that I have stopped for 5 seconds.

You need to come to a complete stop at a stop sign. You cannot stop three cars back then drive through a stop sign and expect to get away with it. You have stated that you have not stopped when you were the car in front therefore you need to pay the ticket.

Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004
Part 4
Stopping and giving way
4.1Giving way where vehicles are controlled by stop sign or give-way sign
(1)A driver approaching or entering an intersection on a roadway where the vehicles that are moving in the direction in which that driver is travelling are controlled by a stop sign at or near the intersection must—
(a)stop his or her vehicle before entering the path of any possible vehicle flow at such a position as to be able to ascertain whether the way is clear for the driver to proceed; and
(b)give way to any vehicles approaching or crossing the intersection from a roadway not controlled by a stop sign.

My understanding of the law as stated above is that you only need to stop AT SUCH A POSITION AS TO BE ABLE TO ASCERTAIN WHETHER THE WAY IS CLEAR .... which I did when I stopped. It does not stipulate that it must be at the sign.

A NZ Herald article I just found seems to support my view http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890100

You can choose to have your case heard in court - let us know how you get on.

Hi Donavan, I was under the impression when you gave me legal advice above that you are a lawyer and was extremely disappointed when I rang AA to discover that you are not. I had my doubts from your first response. When I signed into the site it reads Home/Cars/Ask an expert/Legal advice and I was expecting a legal expert to answer my question as it was highly technical so I feel that I have been misled.

@michael96 are you for real man? when i did my full drivers licence it was stop when in front at the stop sign or fail. maybe the aa need to request you redo your test. the foreigners in our country need to abide to the laws we have to. no offence but i couldnt help myself but comment. get real.

The Road User Rule states that a driver entering an intersection that is controlled by a stop sign, at or near the intersection, must stop before entering the path of any possible vehicle flow at such a position as to be able to ascertain whether the way is clear for the driver to proceed - whether you like it or not you cannot do this three cars back as the cars in front of you are obstructing your view. Stopping more than ten metres from the intersection is not stopping before entering the path of any possible vehicle flow. It is not a give way sign as you have treated it.

While the infringement fee is normally $150 and 20 demerit points, if you wish to take the matter to court then you risk leaving with a $1,000 penalty on conviction.

I don't think that NZ Herald article supports your view at all. It says you should make your own interpretation. The legislation is quite vague, but you could argue that by having a vehicle in front of you, you don't have a clear view of the road. Also, if a road had good enough visibility that you could see from maybe 10-15m back, it probably wouldn't require a stop sign and would have a give way sign instead. This page http://www.drivingtests.co.nz/roadcode-questions/car/intersection/when-coming-up-to-a-stop-sign-should-you/ has the official Road Code question and some extra explanation at the bottom.
KT